Discussions > Spark podcast: You Haven't Come a Long Way, Literature
After listening to Nora’s interview with author Paul La Farge and doing a little of my own research, I find myself divided on this issue. I’ve always been the kind of person to resist technological advances until I absolutely must embrace them. I don’t have a Kindle, iPad, or any other new-fangled reading device. I’m happy with the weight of a book in my lap and the smell of the pages as I flip them, and my home library is something I display proudly. I am, however, willing to ease up on my rigid stance when a new development is truly something special. This is not one of those times.
Reading in a non-linear fashion and escaping the actual story to explore other links, I think, cheapens the whole reading experience. I’m not saying one is right or wrong, but for me it wouldn’t work. I would be beyond distracted (hell, I was distracted by the headlines on the right sidebar when I was listening to the ten minute interview!) and would never be able to fully immerse myself in the story. Ironically, Paul La Farge refers to his work Luminous Airplanes as “immersive text”.
The ability to know what happens “off-screen”, so to speak, in a novel is provocative, but there’s such a thing as knowing too much. If the author neglects to describe an event or a character’s full past, then I would assume those things weren’t integral to the story. As an aspiring novelist, I don’t relish the idea of having to explain every little thing my character did before making it to the beginning of the story. That just seems like more work for the writer for nothing. I’ve read every novel Stephen King has published, and at the end of each and every one I wish that it would go on further, and I’m left with a few unanswered questions. If I actually had an answer for everything that left me hanging, I think it would take a lot of the fun out of it. I enjoy coming up with my own theories about what happened after the end or continuing to wonder if that person was just crazy or if there really were ghosts haunting him. I suppose all I’m trying to say is that the author knows what he or she is doing, and shouldn’t have to explain himself or herself every step of the way.
My opinions on this are based only on what I’ve learned today, and I should point out that I’ve never actually read a book of this style. Perhaps when I do I will love it, because it does sound exciting in some ways, but my initial reaction is that it’s a bit too gimmicky to stick around for the long haul. But then again, everything I deem as trendy ends up becoming a permanent staple in pop-culture, so don’t just take my word for it!
Sarah Foley
I agree with Sarah.
At first, I was confused about this new “immersive” or “hypertext” novel. As the interview with Paul La Farge progressed, I started to understand. The electronic book comes along with numerous links, which can expand on a part of the story not explained in the text. I guess the term “immersive” was coined because the reader is embedding themselves into many layers of the different stories.
My problem with this is that it would take away from the story. Constantly branching off from the text would make me forget what the story is about. Following so many links would also frustrate and distract me. A novel is supposed to stand on its own, but with links always leading to another side story or backstory, it changes the whole idea of the novel.
At the same time, it is an exciting new concept. Literature and writing have become so wide-ranging, with e-readers, the web, cell phones, and so on. It would be interesting to see a few of these hypertext novels, but I don’t see it taking over the world of literature. I hope not, anyway.
Personally, if I ever write a book, I would not like to write an immersive novel the way Paul La Farge does. It would be far too much work. Besides, in order to write like that, I would need to know EVERYTHING about the story I was telling. That takes the imaginative power out of the novel. Authors rarely know everything about the worlds they create. If they did know, would they bother writing?
I prefer the old-fashioned book. It’s concrete, not abstract. It would be an amazing feeling to have just published your first novel, and be able to hold it in your hand for the first time. It would feel more real. How would you feel if one day, the novels you write could be found only at the click of a button?
Mary Delong
I am of two minds on this. On the one side, I completely agree with Sarah. How could I possibly immerse myself in a story if I am constantly being distracted by other threads that are connected, but do not have anything to do with the main storyline? It sounds rather exhausting, and not just as a reader, but as a writer as well. I would rather just stick with the one storyline until the end.
On the other hand, I can see the potential in this, and I am intrigued. Mary made a point about how knowing too much of the fictitious world you’re reading about can ruin some of the excitement of reading and/or writing. I agree to a point. Some worlds are worth exploring to their very limits. There are stories that I have written where I never want the story to end because I love writing about it so much. Having this would allow me to keep going even when I’d come to the conclusion of the story.
As an art form, I think there is a lot that could be done with this. You wouldn’t have to be limited to how Paul La Farge used it either. There are so many ways you could go about telling a story with this. In the end however, I have to agree with Sarah when she says she finds it a bit gimmicky. I’m fairly certain this form of telling stories has yet to make its run – we’ve only just seen the beginning – but I don’t think that the linear way of telling stories will go out of style anytime soon.
Megan Macleod
I agree with Sarah.
Her explanation with Stephen King in comparison to the "off-screen" literature perfectly describes my own thoughts. I think the "blank screen" as La Farge says, adds to the character. It allows the reader to create their own world and life for the character that isn't included in the book. I think that this as as much a part of the book as the words are. Everyone will create their own world outside of the pages, allowing them to connect with the book and enjoy it in their own way.
The "old fashioned" books are still around and never "puttered out." Why try and mess with a good thing? It just doesn't make sense to me!
Josh Bell
I have to agree that the "interactive novel" does not seem like a true replacement for the standard written narrative. As something different though, perhaps it has its merits (as a more complex than usual video game?)
Next discussion, I'll ask you all to take a look at an intriguing project sponsored by the National Film Board of Canada. It's called Welcome to Pine Point, and it is somewhat interactive. I'll say more in the intro to the next discussion.
It's nice to see so many young people who are really attached to the good old book - are you representative though, generationally speaking - I guess as people who've chosen a program called Professional Writing, you are more likely to be avid readers than the average person (of any age).
But let's face it - many many people today do not read books. Many young people's lives are/have been swallowed up by video games. Would an interactive novel hold appeal to this group of people, do you think?
Moira Farr
I agree that this concept of "immersive literature" sounds very distracting. If something wasn't important enough to include in the book portion of the project, why is it necessary in the online version? At the risk of sounding cynical, this could be a clever way to include all of the extensive background information his editors cut out.
I think my main problem with this concept is calling it "literature". It sounds much more like an online game environment that just happens to be text-based. I disagree completely that all video-game protagonists are blank slates. There are some games that are better written - and with more characterization - than a lot of the books being published today.
What makes a piece of good fiction really amazing is its ability to take the reader on a journey. The reader opens the book, begins to read, and gets sucked into the world that the words create in the reader's imagination. The author is supposed to be in control of that process. By providing all of this extra information, not only has the writer given up control but the reader's imagination isn't being asked to participate either. I guess I just don't see how this approach could help a story without totally fragmenting it. "Infinite digressions" is not a positive endorsement in my books.
This should all be taken with a grain of salt. Like Sarah, I tend to be a slow adopter of technology. I own a Kobo, but I use it primarily to read books that are no longer under copyright (meaning old and free).
Jillian Ewaschuk
The idea of a non-linear story is exceedingly interesting to me. When reading a "conventional novel" you're locked into the confines of a singular story, however, in a book where you are free to roam over different characters, conflicts, events - that perhaps are all revolving around one theme, event, or world - you're given much more content, and with that I would assume, more enjoyment.
The best parallel I can think of is the development of non-linear video games. When I was younger the structure of video games was very concrete, you spawned at point A and you had to get to point B; and upon reaching point B you would watch a cinematic that would progress the story. And this would continue until the story was completed. My first non-linear video game was Oblivion, and to describe the change: You began at point A, and were directed to point B; however, you didn't need to go to point B if you didn't want to. You could go to point 1 (which has nothing to do with point A or B) and complete that story by going to point 2. And you could do this until all of the other "side-quests" - which is what they are also known as - were completed and only the "main-story" (point A to point B) remained.
The description of the "hypertext" sounds the same as the non-linear video game. I definitely see potential in a product like this. After experiencing the freedom of non-linear stories (in video games), I almost play them exclusively.
Kenneth Wilson
I agree with Sarah on this. My father has gone from using an actual book, to using his ipad, and he loves it. He is always trying to get my to download books and try it out on my ipad, but I cannot stand reading on a screen, I need a book in my hands, it's the natural way for me. The screen is also too much of a distraction for me, as google is only one click away.
As for this whole linking thing, I think that is also ridiculous. I do not want to be distracted while I am trying to read a book, and retain its information. I also want to get out of it what the author wants me to get out of it, not what someone else wants me to believe. The author is the one telling the story, and that person is the only person I want to hear it from.
Nathan Gillespie
I agree with the fact that this just doesn't seem like a good way to read a book , I can't see myself particularly trying this out. I have the option of reading on screens and I find it much harder to do than opening a book. When I open a book, I expect it to be all the story the author wanted me to read, and if parts of it spark my interest I look into them. However, I do have to give credit where it's due too.
First off, in an age where we're used to being able to access all the information that we want, whenever we want, thanks to Google and Wikipedia et al, I can see where this would be really intriguing for the generation that's starting out or in the thick of it now. Where my generation would read through a novel and save our questions about different events for the end and then do our own research, lots of younger people tend to stop in the middle and have those questions answered before they go on. We call it distraction. However, the internet really is changing the way that people think and how they do things. So I can see the possible potential for this to get big.
Secondly, my other big disagreement with this form of writing is that when writers are already struggling to make a living at what they're doing, this would kill a lot of extra income. While immersive text lets the story seem to go on infinitely, and gives all the side stories to every little thing in the book, it's not allowing room for the reader to come back into that world. What will happen to sequels? Trilogies? Series? If you're just going to write one massive book that satisfies every curiosity about a world and a group of characters you're robbing yourself of being able to write more about it and sell the rest of the stories. From a practical standpoint, I'd rather be able to generate more long lasting income.
Anna Lanteigne
(Apparently if your browser tells you the site has timed out and you don't see your post on the discussion page when you get it loaded again, and then post again to make sure the post is up, you can't just delete the second post cause a "message body is required" yay technology! )
Anna Lanteigne
As someone who is easily distracted by all the information available on the web, I prefer anything I read to stick to the point, rather than provide me with numerous links to further immerse myself in the subject. I read a lot of news websites and make a conscious effort not to click on the many links providing in a lot of the stories I read. There are definitely times when my efforts to stay focused on the original article fail and I find myself stumbling from one webpage to the next without finishing the story I started on. Often times by the end of my browser journey I end up on something completely irrelevant to the original subject matter.
That being said “immersive text” or the “novel 2.0” may lead to a whole new way of reading for a new technology savvy generation, I just don’t see it catching on with people such as myself who don’t readily embrace things like social media and other internet time wasters. As a writer, if I were to ever write a substantial piece of fiction I would strive to leave the reader wanting more at the end of it. I wouldn’t want to have to include a bunch of expansive storylines on top of the original story arc, and am not really interested in reading stories laid out this way.
Christian Cleland
I don't find this "hypertext" novel excites me in any way. If anything it turns me off, I have never been a fan of novel series, video games with different options along the way, or movies with multiple endings. When I read something, I want the entire story laid out in front of me, in one novel. I don't like have an addiction in my life that is constantly seeking more of the story, unless it is my own. I would rather have more broad horizons on the books that I read. I want to learn about multiple subjects than master in one I suppose.
Overall, I just can't picture this type of text taking off any better than it did in the 1990's, but this is coming from a guy who is still a bit annoyed when seeing an e-reader, I'm slowly finding a friend in technology.
Alex Gravelle
I wouldn't buy into this hypertext kind of book. However, it's kind of hard to judge this since I've never actually seen a hypertext novel in real life.
I guess I consider myself a traditional reader, and I prefer regular old books. Over the weekend I had to opportunity to look at a friends iPad and Kobo reader, and I have to say I don't really like the idea of an e-reader. I like the iPad, but I wouldn't ever use it for reading books. I think the iPad is better suited for other types of media, like for viewing photos and video.
I don't like either type of e-reader for the simple fact that you can't lend a book to a friend, or that you don't really own the book. I like that you don't have to charge a real book, and there's less of a chance someone will steal your real book over an e-reader. I think I'm okay with keeping things traditional because I don't find there's anything wrong with reading a real book.
Elizabeth Balsom
I think this sounds like an interesting new way to read and write a book. I think the important thing would be to give readers a choice - so if they don't want to read any additional material or go anywhere online they should still get a complete story. But this could be very useful for expansive stories that have a lot of history and back story, or more world building focused styles like fantasy and science fiction. I've read books that have footnotes during pages for things like this, this could be a new way of doing that and possibly even less distracting than the alternative.
Is anyone familiar with Alternate Reality Gaming? I think that's what it's called. It's often a form of viral marketing. It allows people to interact with a fictional world through fake websites, articles, videos and images. This reminds me of that, and it sounds like a very interesting new way to immerse your readers in your story.
Leah Powell
I think as technology progresses, our culture is a reflection of that. Perhaps the idea of reading an actual printed book is outdated, that people want a different, more interactive experience where they can click on others links and poke around on the internet as they are used to.
While I think that this new 'immersive text' may be more popular, I don't think I will reading in this form any time soon. Our society is so consumed with technology that they are never satisfied with what was. It's always what could be, and it's never enough. I think that it would be a really distracting reading experience, and I'm sticking to my guns and reading a good old fashioned paperback.
Madison Abraham
Paper or electronic... is it too much to ask for both?
I'm intrigued by this new idea. It's a way to break down massive stories into more wieldy pieces. Nothing can replace the tactile experience of a book; we all like fanning our smelly novels in our faces. Admit it, I do! However, with new technologies developing, such as Cloud storage, electronic copies can prove to be more handy. There's also the option to choose which parts of the story's world you're more interested in. Some authors tend to be long-winded or include useless details, and this could be convenient for the reader.
The concept seems a bit cold to me, but I'm open to the new concept for both reading and writing.
Christopher Shabatowski
It seems the verdict is that while this is an interesting development, with lots of potential, most of us still want the option of paper books, or at least, long, traditional narrative structures. How long that will be the case, who knows - I don't see why many different formats can't co-exist. I'll be interested to hear what people make of "Welcome to Pine Point," our next discussion subject...
Moira Farr
I also am caught in the middle of this debate. I think the concept of a book that is constantly updating and reissuing, faster than any publishing company could dream of, is an amazing idea. My issue is that I don’t want to move forward any faster than we already are. It feels like nothing can ever stay the same, reflecting my need for control. This is why I prefer reading a book to caving in to an e-reader. I like to maintain the illusion that my book is all there is to the story, even if there is a sequel.
It sounds like the online continuations would be published eventually, as there are two versions of the hypertext novel, so those with an e-reader can enjoy, as well as those who prefer tangible copies.
Jasmine Gearey
As much as I love the old-fashioned way of reading like many of you have said. I find myself entranced with the new "immersive text." I won't give up on hard-coped books, as I do like having a tangible novel in my hand and displayed on my personal book shelf, but the idea of discovering more to the simple overlooked ideas in the novel sounds fascinating. It kind of reminds me of the “choose your own ending” books I used to read as a child.
I like the idea of possibility learning more about a certain character or back ground information on the main. It's like a group of different stories that could have merged or intertwined depending on the how the story unfolded.
I do not own any of the fancy ipads or similar gadgets and I don't feel the need to get one because of this new "immersive text," but I am not against the "immersive text" either.
I also think this new way of reading books will eventually become more common, because where my younger sister goes to school, her classmates are given laptops to use during certain lessons and I feel, they may start using "immersive text" as a teaching tool, letting students discover different ways through a variety of links.
I personally like the old and the new and I will accept the new as well as keep the old close at heart.
Bethany La Chappelle
I'm actually with Kenny on this. I would absolutely love a hypertext novel with some qualifiers. For example, if I had an interest in Luminous Airplanes, I would want to read the hard novel first. The distraction factor most people are mentioning is very real and unappealing. However, if I enjoyed the base story, I'd definitely seek out the "immersive" text for a re-read.
There are some fiction worlds, both literary and gaming oriented, for which I would sell my soul to have access to the possibility of infinite continuance of an infinite variety of digressing stories within those worlds. Sandbox video games can be amazingly entertaining to play, just to wander around and explore. Can you imagine your favourite novel being similarly explorable? Just thinking about it makes me giddy.
As far as the electronic medium for display, I was of the anti e-reader camp until I found myself forced to borrow one recently. I loved it. It was far more portable than a book, far easier to flip the pages with one hand busy holding a coffee. I could read it easily while eating without having to break the spine. (I'm fanatical about spine breaking.) Without any effort on my part at all, the device held most of the core of classic English literature for immediate perusal and I didn't have to search my bookshelf or lug any of my anthologies around.
When I went back to reading my old fashioned book after I had to return the e-reader, I found myself a little disappointed by the book's crudeness and hoped that e-readers will catch on even further. To me, the book seems more like it's on the way to becoming an objet d'art, a hobbyist's collectible, but novels themselves are stronger than ever.
Danielle Wilson
Please listen to this 10-minute interview with author Paul LaFarge from CBC Radio's new-technology show, Spark.
http://www.cbc.ca/spark/2012/01/spark-168-january-15-18-2012/